Judy Silber
Nicole Daedone
Izzy
Episode 29: Perfection
Hear the arguments in favor and against
What would you say if brought before a jury that argued for your perfection? For every fault that you listed, the jury would counter with an argument of how that particular trait was necessary and important
Many people like to say that they are perfectionists. What they often mean is that they are intensely critical of themselves.
Who among us does not know our faults? In fact, we are so critical of ourselves, it is sometimes hard to remember that we are human, and that humans are jealous, judgmental, angry, insecure and not always operating at full capacity. We think that these flaws stand in the way of our perfection. But what if we assumed that they were part of being perfect? Listen to the story of Izzy an Orthodox Jew who worried he might lose his faith if he continued to follow his intuition, and who brought this conflict before a OneTaste jury to argue against his perfection. Also, hear from other people about their very human flaws, and the jury’s arguments for how those traits point toward – rather than away – from perfection.
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Transcript
Announcer: This program is intended for mature audiences only.
[music]
Judy Silber: Most of us know our flaws really well. Ask us to recite a list and we can do so easily. Mine are these: I’m impatient, I’m incredibly controlling, I like to take naps, I miss deadlines often, I have a temper, I am judgmental, I don’t call my parents as often as I should, I never learned grammar, I like to argue but hate it when people disagree with me. There are more but I don’t want to indulge so I’ll stop.
The point is most of us are pretty hard on ourselves, we aren’t as nice or as good looking, as smart, or as educated, or athletic, or personable or whatever as we think we should be. We beat ourselves up because we aren’t perfect.
So what if we just took the opposite approach and assumed that we were actually perfect. You know the old story of being created in God’s image. What if we stopped being so hard on ourselves and accepted that everything inside of us was there for a reason. All of it, the good, the bad, the ugly, how would that change us?
[music]
From One Taste Urban Retreat Center in San Francisco we bring you, “A Taste of Sex, Reality Audio”, a podcast featuring the personal stories and perspectives of people engaged in the conscious exploration of connection, sensuality and relationship. This week’s topic, perfection.
We’ll hear the story of Izzy, an orthodox Jew who worried that if he claims his perfection he might lose his faith. We’ll also hear snippets of people arguing for and against their perfection. I’m Judy Silber, stay tuned.
Judy Silber: Early one morning in March twenty-five students of One Taste loaded vans and cars outside the San Francisco center and drove across the Golden Gate Bridge down windy highway I overlooking the Pacific ocean and arrived at a house in Stensen Beach where they would spend five days on retreat in an intense examination of themselves.
As one participant named Izzy said later, much of the retreat know as the “Intensive” was spent with the light being shined on their flaws. That was hard but then came the last day, which was devoted to perfection. It wasn’t any easier. To find their way to perfection each person had to face their worst judgements, shame and fears about the innermost parts of themselves. This is Izzy explaining the exercise.
Izzy: So at any given point three of us were sitting on the couch and sitting directly across were Nicole . . .
Judy: Who is the instructor.
Izzy: Yeah, Nicole Daedone, who was the instructor, Chris . . .
Judy: Who at the time was a fulltime resident of One Taste Immerging Program
Izzy: And a third person, I don’t remember the third person, not chopped liver, they just happen to elude me at this moment. The big arguments that I got into involved Nicole and Chris.
Judy: So the idea was that you argued against your perfection but then when you had a flash of perfection, when you flashed on your own perfection then you would sit down.
Izzy: Yeah, exactly. For some people it took longer than others, it depended on how intensely you felt about it and how many arguments you had. I had three, you know some people had like seven, eight.
[music]
Izzy: Nichole prefaced the whole activity by saying:
Nicole: So we’re going to give you the opportunity that you’re always having only having it less. I’m also going to remind you that nobody can give you your perfection and nobody can make you right and nobody can save you. It has to be something you yourself claim.
Judy: When did your turn come?
Izzy: It was somewhere in the middle I guess. I purposely didn’t want to be one of the early people. I wanted to be a spectator for a while and watch other people go through it.
Judy: And when you got up how did you feel?
Izzy: It was exhilarating being out there.
[music]
Judy: What were your arguments against your perfection?
Izzy: I had three, first off is that I don’t have my shit together:
Izzy: I’m imperfect, because I don’t have it together yet. For as long as I can remember other people were always cleaner than I am, knew how to cook . . . so many life skills, sometimes I feel like I was raised by wolves.
[laughter]
Izzy: Though its not the case, at least my mom, you know . . .
Nicole: Kosher mom.
Izzy: Yeah, yeah. It was like, you know administrative things like allotting time, being organized, I lack that. I have a lot of habits, nasty and otherwise that’s like hard to break.
Nicole: So basically you’re a slob, is that what you’re saying?
[laughter]
Judy: What was their defense of your perfection?
Izzy: I want to preface it by saying that the way they argued was rather interesting in that actually they took it seriously. They didn’t just go, “Well you’re ok the way you are, even with that.” They really played devil’s advocate to a large degree and tried to find the other side to it. To find some saving grace to that way of being.
Judy: Something that would make it worthwhile for you to have that inside of you.
Izzy: Yeah.
Judy: So for being a slob what did they say?
Izzy: Chris knew something about the work I did.
Nicole: Was it you, someone was telling me that they were the expert in their field? Oh, was that him? Oh.
Izzy: Yeah, so luckily you know, luckily you know in the world they value more than, you know being put together. They value people who had their shit together who could sit behind a screen for eight hours a day, you know.
Nicole: So what you’re saying is you’re a specialist rather than a generalist? And so all those, you know like Bach and Beethoven and all the doctors of the world, they’re all fucked up?
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Izzy: What they’re saying is, ok granted, you know you have sort of like renaissance man, jack of all trades, people who are neat and you have some people who are like extremely good at one specific thing to the exclusion of anything else. And the world is just made up that way.
Judy: This is actually really interesting. Instead of needing to be all things you can just be this one thing which you happen to be extremely good at. Wow! Yeah because there’s so much pressure to be everything.
Izzy: Yeah.
[music]
Judy: So the second one.
Izzy: I’m imperfect because despite the fact that for the past year I’ve had great and profound experiences, nevertheless I think I’m playing a dangerous game because there’s risk that my progeny will be completely, you know, not go in the way of my ancestors. And I feel like I’m severing a thousands of years old link because I dream of a world I know nothing about and what I do know about it I think the stakes might be too high for me, that’s a genuine fear.
I am actually orthodox Jewish. Until I was in my early twenties I was in Shabbats studying and that’s not something that I was going to turn my back on and I was afraid that if I really lived out of Turin and did the things that I wanted to, things that felt healthy without regard for the tradition I was born into I lose my faith.
[music]
Judy: What did Nicole say to that?
Nicole: And you don’t think that thousands of years of your ancestors truths are strong enough to withstand you exploring for deeper truths?
Izzy: Any track record of people doing this sort of work, you know, if it means anything, possibly not.
Nicole: This work brought me to your ancestors.
[music]
Izzy: You know here I was complaining about this notion of following your own intuition and doing what’s right . . .
Judy: Oh, rather than that which God commands us?
Izzy: Yeah, and she’s saying, yeah, but that intuition is what brought me to study Judaism to begin with.
Judy: Oh, so it was her own intuition that brought her to Judaism.
Izzy: Yeah.
Judy: So there was something that drew, there was some parallel there.
Izzy: Shams have a point and there is a place for intuition and like I didn’t say to her, “I want to be very respectful.” Here it was a little cynical because ultimately I have a lot of friends, many of whom, I could not tell them what I was up to during this past year. And the fact that she studied Judaism in earnest, it doesn’t make a difference. I couldn’t tell them, “Oh, I’m involved in a sex positive community, but its ok because the founder was drawn to our religion and studied in earnest.”
Judy: So how did you reconcile that one?
Izzy: Well, first off I didn’t say that. I did not say that at all because I wanted to be respectful. I told her, yeah, that’s true.
Izzy: I realize that and a lot go in the opposite direction.
Nicole: A lot go in the opposite direction anyway.
Izzy: Yeah, I just don’t want to be one of them.
Nicole: I understand that but how will you know if you’re a true believer if you don’t test it?
Izzy: And she was comforting me and telling me that everything that my ancestors stood for, everything that came before was actually . . . they were pointing in this direction.
[music]
Izzy: And it really resonated with me and like what she said, you know, logically I kind of understand it maybe as a [xx]. I intuited it to mean inevitably an unbroken link of thousands of years. I inherited that and I’m out in the world and this is where I’m at. And everything that came prior is not at odds with where I’m at, its not frowning at what I’m doing at this moment but rather it all brought me to a place that I’m at and I should respect that.
Judy: Did it resolve for you or the arguments still going on but maybe they’re a little quieter?
Izzy: They’re a little quieter; it’s a little softer. I guess yeah and what’s going on now is sort of a notion that really even there are absolute truths being able to hold opposing ideas, you know, in tension to each other is also absolutely truthful. And God loves everyone. And its also true that we were inherently divine and we have unlimited potential. And its also true, like Nicole said, the best way to live is to follow your intuition and do what feels right at any given moment.
Judy: You’ve been listening to A Taste of Sex; we’ll be back after this short break.
[music]
Announcer: Listen to “A Taste of Sex, Erotic Poetry Reading”, a companion program to “Life In An Orgasm Based Community”. Its open mic night at “One Taste, San Francisco”, a weekly audio program on personallifemedia.com.
[music]
Judy: Welcome back to “A Taste of Sex”, I’m Judy Silber.
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Judy: So, the third argument.
Izzy: I ended up at One Taste basically because like when it came to my roll with girls I didn’t know my ass from my ola. You know things have gotten better since I got here but I have to enter sort of this safe container where I can experiment with stuff because in the outside world I just am absolutely clueless. And I just could have gone on for easily another 10 – 20 years remaining clueless.
Izzy: If there is, I kind of feel that had One Taste not existed, like I would have just flitted into oblivion, I mean I so lacked the ability to deal with girls for whatever reason, you know, whatever the factors were that contributed to it.
Nicole: Ok, so let me just stop you here and if you want to continue afterward you can.
Izzy: Yeah.
Nicole: So, I can tell you that you are extremely flawed with women and what you are flawed at is very minute. But I can fix it right now so if you aren’t perfect we can get you perfect really quickly. And this is the only thing blocking it and that’s just that you don’t notice how hot they are for you.
Izzy: How hot they are for me?
[laughter]
Izzy: Well, what’s . . .
Nicole: And how much they flirt with you.
Izzy: Oh, how much they flirt with me.
[laughter]
Nicole: So then you’re just a cruel rejecter who makes a woman feel like a street ho.
[laughter]
Izzy: What can I do to be more conscious?
Nicole: More conscious?
Izzy: Of what’s going on around me.
Nicole: You can just say, “Hey, are you hot for me. Try Whitney.
Izzy: Hey, are you hot for me?
Whitney: You look pretty hot right now.
Izzy: Oooah, what you doing later?
[laughter}
[applause]
[music]
Judy: Do you remember the moment that you flashed on your perfection?
Izzy: Yeah, so it was really after the second question.
Judy: Do you remember that moment though?
Izzy: Yeah it was after Nicole finished speaking. I sort of saw that I forgot that there were two sides to every argument. And what Nicole and Chris and the third person on stage, their knack was to help people refrain their experience and see it from a more positive perspective, which is just as valid as the negative perspective. So why not interpret things positively if you can.
Judy: Have you had any easement of the judgment that you have for yourself? Have you noticed any?
Izzy: A lot of good came from that Intensive. Now that I’ve moved back to my apartment I clean regularly. [laughs]
Judy: You do! [laughs}
Izzy: I mean, I’d like to start yoga, that was a major concept, to have a daily practice that keeps one in their body, find ways of getting back to One Taste actually. In New York I once actually hosted “People for Shabbats” and they were extremely appreciative. And once things quiet down I would like to do it on the average of once a month. You know, have One Taste people over and share part of me with them. And I guess to have a daily practice of appreciating the good, to remember to remember. Maybe I’ll just listen to this audio with you later.
Judy: [laughs] Yeah. Thanks Izzy.
Izzy: Thank you, a real pleasure.
[music]
Judy: Part II, more arguments for and against perfection. Here are excerpts from other students and Nicole’s responses in defense of their perfection.
Female: I still look down on people to make myself feel better.
Nicole: Ok, I don’t think its to make yourself feel better, I just think its because they’re dumb.
[laughter]
Female I: Because they’re dumb.
Nicole: I mean I think like there’s this idea that we’re supposed to have like the same vision of people when they’re being stupid. No, its just generous to see somebody exactly as they are.
Female II: I’m imperfect because I haven’t figured out how to have my leader just do her job, just do it. All the resistance and my fears and imperfections are out of the way.
Nicole: Ok, what you’re saying to me is you haven’t figured out how to find your fierce leader and transform her into a Stepford wife?
[laughter]
Nicole: Free of all things human? A great leader is somebody who has insecurities and resistances and fun-ofness and keeps going. Otherwise you’ve got a limpy leader who can’t identify with anybody. I mean, imagine if you were a leader with no resistance, right and you had all these people who had a ton of resistance and you were like, “Huh, huh, well don’t be resistant”. That’s not a leader. A leader is somebody who sits right there with you, with their own shit and keeps going.
Nicole: Are you perfect?
Female III: No.
Nicole: Why not?
Female III: I haven’t at all found any kind of right relationship [xx] I’m always doing something wrong, I’m always doing something wrong there.
Nicole: So I am perfect?
Female III: I’m the same way; I’m always judging everyone.
Nicole: Always, everyone?
Female III: Ok, I am often judging people who aren’t willing to step up to the bigger game.
Nicole: So you’re saying you’re an impasse and you feel how people feel inside, what is your problem? Hello, you think they feel good about themselves? No, so you just see what’s there, big fucking deal.
Female III: And then I don’t know what to do about it. Like, am I supposed to be mean and say it all the time? Because people don’t like that.
Nicole: Oh, is that mean? I didn’t realize telling the truth was mean, fuck.
Female III: I feel like I’m becoming so harsh towards other people. I don’t have compassion for them and I don’t have love for them.
Nicole: Now here I am going to challenge you. Do you really not have love for people? Is the problem really that you don’t have love for them or that you’re afraid about how much love you do have? You have to have a pretty powerful love to be able to keep it contained in that much judgment.
Female III: I’ve been really stingy with my love, really really stingy.
Nicole: Maybe you’re so incredibly generous that you wait until you’re absolutely sure as to how to wield it before you let it out.
Male I: I accept the concept of accepting my humanity which, I think, is what this exercise if for.
Nicole: Just hurry up and give me the [xx].
Male I: I show up with low self esteem in a lot of places and I let myself down.
Nicole: And didn’t you have . . . weren’t you the dad story?
Male I: Oh my God, I hope not.
Nicole: The race, the running, who was that? You were, or the baseball guy?
Male I: Yeah.
Nicole: So that guy, do you feel like you’ve bought him, you really are?
Male I: Yes and I’m ready for more. I guess I’m . . . its taking me a long time to forgive myself for holding myself back. And so I feel that I’m ready to do that.
Nicole: I don’t understand any of the [xx] You have this guy, like you have this guy who was swimming upstream and then he fought really hard to move out of this into a life where he is progressively living further and further out of him. Tell me the imperfection there.
Male I: I’m ready.
[laughter]
[music]
Judy: Thank you for listening to “A Taste Of Sex”. You can find us on the web at onetaste.us. For transcripts of this show you’ll want to go to personallifemedia.com.
I’m Judy Silber. Thanks for listening.
[music]
Nicole: I’m also going to remind you that nobody can give you perfection. Nobody can make you right. Nobody can say this; it has to be something that you yourself claim.
[music]
Announcer: Find more great shows like this on personallifemedia.com.
